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ro99

New member
And to add to what Odedee said

and to what I have already said. You are unable to separate your own personal view of Judaism from that of other people. I'm sorry to have to tell you that, but I take particular offence to your statements about non-Jewish partners. I have lived with a non-Jewish partner for many years (and still do) and even the suggestion that this is an inferior arrangement or that I would be better off with someone Jewish is very offensive to me. I see it as racist. I have deliberately chosen not to have children - a decision that has nothing to do with the identity of my partner (who, like me, is also not religious). If we did have children, like Odedee, I would bring them up to be human beings. And if you really want to know (although I suspect, this particular piece of information will upset you greatly) I would not choose to have a child of mine circumcised. Why are you so convinced that what is good for you is good for me or for anyone else? You lived with one Christian woman out of millions and you draw conclusions about every single Christian (or whatever - shall we say non-Jewish instead?) based on that. That's plain prejudice. My partner is the most wonderful human being I have ever been lucky to meet. I choose partners because of love and a meeting of souls - the rest is immaterial.​
 

Loretail

New member
I do not think that all the women w

who are not Jewish are not good enough nor am I racist. You must be joking. I said it is very hard to over come the education part if you are following your religion. There are a lots of debates prior to marriage and after ward about that and there need to be a lot of compromise t .Both of you odeed and you do not have to deal with it because you do not see your self as part of the Jewish religion .So you I guess have no problems. But to assume I think that they are not good enough is coming from your own perspective not mine. If that is how I would think I would not live in the United States. I have enough passports I COULD chose where it is I want to live. And btw you take personal offence at just about any statement that is not co relate with your OWN personal view so I have noticed. You see your own reality and then you tell me it is only my personal view? You must be joking. I will keep writing in this forum only to be heard and to let you know that some people still love and carry about Israel. And to tell you that Judaism is not a dirty word and to tell you guys that to be gay is not the only reason for your existence. I am sure your partner is wonderful Ro, what's the connection? I never said that someone who is not Jewish can not be wonderful. I was talking about Religion not relationships. And, Ro you do not have children and you do not have a problem with religion per se since you are not following it. So it has nothing really to do with what I AM TALKING ABOUT/. And I think it is time now to agree to disagree as usual. Have a great day I know I will D .
 

ro99

New member
I'm sorry I misunderstood

I have experienced a lot of shocking racism (that would make your blood boil, believe me) from Jews about my choice of partner and I am extra sensitive about that issue. I apologise Where do you get the impression that I want to stop you from writing in this forum? I don't see Judaism as a dirty word, just not something I believe in personally or want forced upon me. And being gay (or, in my case, bisexual) is absolutely not the only reason for my existence! You may think I am irritating and opinionated, but I hope you don't think I am that shallow
 

Loretail

New member
What I say here

is my own personal belief that’s all .Not holding any other for my own . I also don't really care if you do circumcise your future kid. I don't think that my choice should be yours. After I read about it from many aspects I still did not see enough reasoning not to do it. So I will. My friend here chose not to. So will I not love her son? Or her, for that matter? Of course not, in the classes I teach there are many who are half Jewish or not Jewish that wants to become Jewish. We are less than 1% of the USA population. There are many great people here, Arabs and African Americans which I associate with as of other shades of colors and races. I chose people according to their heart as well. However, for my own family. I will choose what my grandfather and my father and my kids will. To live as a chiloni that is more of tradition Jew that’s all. A close friend of mine ...lived in Israel but he is an American, fell in love with a Palestinian,, who do you think saved them from being killed by the Palestinian family after they found it out? I gave them shelter until the UN came to rescue (it was on Haaaretz newspaper) so I am not telling you anything you do not know from the papers. So to sum it up, if it was my son I would do it. If it was my child's son, I would ask him to do it. Either marry a Jewish woman/man (gay or straight) and do a circumcision..I can not force him .But I will try my best to convince him. I am the last one in my family. The last one to continue my heritage, and my genetic.. Thank G-d I gave birth so I have hope, I want to keep the Jewish tradition, Too much of the "shoa" and cancer happened to my family not to do so. All the best D
 

ro99

New member
That is your conviction

אבל לא שלי. אין לי ידע מעמיק על דקדוקי לשון בקשר ל"מדינה יהודית" או "מדינת היהודים" (אבל זכור לי בכל זאת "בבאזל יסדתי את מדינת היהודים" של הרצל, שזה הבדל סמאנטי אבל ענק). אין לי שום דבר נגד יום כיפור (להיפך, אני מאוד אוהבת את היום הזה בגלל השקט, אבל לא יעלה בדעתי לצום או ללכת לבית הכנסת). מה שאותי מדאיג זה שמתווספים לזה כל מיני דברים שמשפיעים על הבחירה האישית של כל אחד ואחת. זה שכופים על אלו ללא רכב לא ליסוע בשבת או שסוגרים להם כבישים למשל. ועוד ועוד, וזה הולך וגובר. תראי, גם את חייה את הפירוש האישי שלך של הדת היהודית מתוך השיקולים האישיים שלך. יש מקומות שבהם מקפידים על כל קוץ של יוד של היהדות: ישובים חרדיים, כמו זה של אחי למשל. רק מה, אם את היית עוברת לשם אז היו מנדים אותך בגלל זה שאת לסבית, ולא היה מפתיע אותי אם ינסו לפעול לקחת ממך את ילדיך בגלל שאת אם לא מתאימה (לפי השיקולים שלהם). אז את רואה? זה עניין אישי. אם את חושבת שיש לי משהו נגד צורת החיים שלך אז את טועה - מי אני שאתערב במה שאת עושה עם החיים שלך? אבל מי קובע אלו חוקים של הדת כן חשובים ואלו לא? את או הם? לכן כדאי לך להזהר שיסודות הדת של אלו שקובעים את מה שקורה בארץ לא יכפו עליך. ואולי זאת דרכך למנוע הכחדות (או, "מצדה לא תיפול שנית" - דבר שלא ממש בראש מעייני, כי אני מפרשת את סיפור מצדה אחרת), אבל דרכי אחרת. אני לא רואה בדת עצמה דבר הכרחי בכדי למנוע הכחדות, אבל זאת הראייה האישית שלי. אני אלחם בחירוף נפש נגד התנכלות ביהודים בגין היותם יהודים, נגד גזענות ונגד חוסר צדק. אבל אצלי דת היא לא חלק מהמשוואה. אצלי להיות יהודייה זה משהו אחר וזכותי לפרש את זה כרצוני ללא כפייה.
 

Noile

New member
יש הבדל

בין דתיים (לא כולם!) שאינם מוכנים להכיר במדינה ולמלא חובות בסיסיות של כל אזרח אך עדיין חיים על חשבון אלה שכן, ובין חילוניים שלא רוצים שום דבר מהדת אלא שתעזוב אותם בשקט. חוקים שאין להם שום דבר עם שלטון החוק או טובת האזרח אלא הם מס שפתיים פוליטי נכון ורצוי שלא יציתו להם.
 
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