אין לי מה להוסיף על מה שכתבתי למעלה בעניין.
שוברים מיתוס.
- פותח הנושא שמלת תחרה1
- פורסם בתאריך
דיברגנט חדש
Well-known member
אם תתחזק תאלץ להיפרד מהתכנית כי שם אוכלים בשר עם חלב, פירות ים וגם חזיר.בעקבות דבריה של מיכל אנסקי, פנינו לרב על מנת שזה יסביר לנו האם יש שיטה לאכול מאכלים לא כשרים • שוברים את המיתוס.
כול יום שומעים על עוד מפורסמים השומרים כשרות/ מתחזקים בדת
בנינו! חוששת שכול אילו שינסו לשמור על מקום עבודה ויאמצו את ההתר, עלולים למצוא את עצמם במקום של ג'קי, להזכירם גיקי לפני תוכנית מסאטר שף לא אכחה דג עם חלב. ובעיקבות התוכנית אכלה
SupermanZW
Well-known member
נראה לי שלא שמת לב שהגבת לשמלת תחרה, לא לסבא. היא רק ציינה מה ראתה, היא לא טענה שהיא מתחזקת.
שמלת תחרה1
Well-known member
לכן דאגה לקבל אישור מרבנים.
וכנראה שהרבנים מוכנים להקל עליה, כדי לא לאבד אותה.
SupermanZW
Well-known member
או שזה רק מה שהיא אמרה.
SupermanZW
Well-known member
“20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you. “- This verse is negated by the next verse, to teach us not only critical thinking but also not jumping to conclusions when we have partial information and try to get the whole picture first.
“21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. “- As previously mentioned, this verse negates the previous one, don’t forget the word “All” in the previous verse. From this we must learn not to be quick to jump to conclusions before we have the full picture.
“22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. “- This verse just mentioned all flying four legged insects. Patience is a virtue indeed, sometimes (I would even say most of the time) we just must keep on reading to let the unclarities unfold. By that the bible teaches us to be critical and patient.
“23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.” – The only problem is that there are no such insects, again emphasizing the need for critical thinking and patience. All but all simply means none.
“24 “‘You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. “- Seems like a repetition, but is it? Not if we look carefully. What does “unclean till evening” mean in this context, that we know is a metaphor? Evening, as we know, is a time of the day, between when the sun starts to set and when it gets dark. We may assume that the present time of the verse cannot be evening, it must be earlier, afternoon, noon, or morning, and that there must be light at the present time of that verse. It is a hint that before the “evening” comes we are prone to misunderstand this verse and the context of this verse and that the “evening” in this verse doesn’t literally mean evening, but something else. Then the question is, what does “evening” mean in this context? For that we need to read Genesis 1 and see what the evening signified at first. Every time the word “evening” was mentioned in Genesis 1 it was mentioned as the beginning of the day, hence, we should interpret that “unclean till evening” may also mean “unclean until a new day” but of course, that would not be enough, as the new day symbolizes something, and then we should ask, what does it symbolize? Considering these verses were misunderstood and misinterpreted for over 1000 years by the Pharisees, I assume, that the “new day” was the day in which Jesus started to teach the bible to his disciples and to everyone who wished to listen to him and exposed the corruption and the lies of the Pharisees who misguided the Israelites for centuries. God Knew in advance that his words would be twisted and misinterpreted, so he warned us ahead, but we failed to understand. A millennium later Jesus came and clarified a long-misunderstood concept.
“25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.”- This seems like a repetition, but it really isn’t, because there is new information – “must wash their clothes”, so this verse teaches us that we must wash our clothes after we touch something unclean, another rule of hygiene. Then we must ask, why will they be unclean till evening? It is because that even if they wash their clothes, they are still spiritually unclean if they misunderstand these rules and that only after being taught the truth, they will be spiritually clean again. Here the bible tells us that lack of knowledge is spiritual uncleanliness.
“26 “‘Every animal that does not have a divided hoof or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. “- This verse seems to repeat verse 3, but adds the part of touching the carcass, emphasizing a difference, in the first part of the verse, the animal is considered unclean, but in the second part of the verse, it is the person who touched the carcass that is considered unclean, so why are they distinguished? It is to tell us that the behaviors of the “unclean” animals are not to be adopted, explaining the metaphor behind the uncleanliness, so that if only the animal has this “unclean” behavior, the “uncleanliness” remains with the animal, but as soon as the person “touches the carcass” as a metaphor to adopting the undesired feature or behavior, it is the person that becomes spiritually unclean.
“27 Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. “- All animals that walk on all fours walk on their paws, so why is it mentioned? To teach us to pay attention to details. Why are they mentioned as “unclean”? Their paws are indeed unclean, wouldn’t your feet be unclean if you had to walk on the streets without shoes? This verse comes to teach us that we should not compare ourselves to animals and should have higher standards than them. This verse also teaches us, in its second part, to keep a distance from unhygienic people.
28 Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. These animals are unclean for you. – Seems to repeat verse 25, but why? First let’s look whether there is a different context. There is, verse 25 was talking about four legged flying insects and this verse talks about four legged animals that are not insects. Carcasses of four legged flying insects may be picked up from virtually anywhere, due to their ability to fly, but carcasses of four legged animals that can’t fly may only be picked up from the ground. That comes to tell us, that regardless of where we find a carcass we should avoid it, so if one thinks that a carcass that is found on a tree (for example) may be considered cleaner than a carcass found on the ground, they should know this isn’t the case, they both comprise a health hazard.
“29 “‘Of the animals that move along the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, “- What do weasels, rats and great lizards have in common? They eat people’s trash; this is simply a warning about the health hazard of eating trash.
“30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. “- What is common to these lizards? They eat insects. Why does it matter to us that these lizards eat insects? Today it doesn’t, because we live in an industrial society, but when these verses were written all households were farmers, society was agrarian, so it was important not to overconsume lizards, because then insects would have become too common and do too much harm to fruits, vegetables and livestock, the lizards were important to keep the balance and prevent insects from overpopulating and transmitting diseases to people through their food.
“32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. 33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. 34 Any food you are allowed to eat that has come into contact with water from any such pot is unclean, and any liquid that is drunk from such a pot is unclean. 35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. 36 A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. 37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. 38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.” – Wherever a lizard falls dead, it poses a health hazard, therefore all these examples. They serve us well when they’re alive but threaten our health when they’re dead.
“39 “‘If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. 40 Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.” – As we can see from this verse, the “clean” animals’ carcasses are treated the same way as the unclean animals’ carcasses, to show us, again, that this is not about what we’re allowed to eat or not, but about habits that we should or shouldn’t adopt.
“21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. “- As previously mentioned, this verse negates the previous one, don’t forget the word “All” in the previous verse. From this we must learn not to be quick to jump to conclusions before we have the full picture.
“22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. “- This verse just mentioned all flying four legged insects. Patience is a virtue indeed, sometimes (I would even say most of the time) we just must keep on reading to let the unclarities unfold. By that the bible teaches us to be critical and patient.
“23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.” – The only problem is that there are no such insects, again emphasizing the need for critical thinking and patience. All but all simply means none.
“24 “‘You will make yourselves unclean by these; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. “- Seems like a repetition, but is it? Not if we look carefully. What does “unclean till evening” mean in this context, that we know is a metaphor? Evening, as we know, is a time of the day, between when the sun starts to set and when it gets dark. We may assume that the present time of the verse cannot be evening, it must be earlier, afternoon, noon, or morning, and that there must be light at the present time of that verse. It is a hint that before the “evening” comes we are prone to misunderstand this verse and the context of this verse and that the “evening” in this verse doesn’t literally mean evening, but something else. Then the question is, what does “evening” mean in this context? For that we need to read Genesis 1 and see what the evening signified at first. Every time the word “evening” was mentioned in Genesis 1 it was mentioned as the beginning of the day, hence, we should interpret that “unclean till evening” may also mean “unclean until a new day” but of course, that would not be enough, as the new day symbolizes something, and then we should ask, what does it symbolize? Considering these verses were misunderstood and misinterpreted for over 1000 years by the Pharisees, I assume, that the “new day” was the day in which Jesus started to teach the bible to his disciples and to everyone who wished to listen to him and exposed the corruption and the lies of the Pharisees who misguided the Israelites for centuries. God Knew in advance that his words would be twisted and misinterpreted, so he warned us ahead, but we failed to understand. A millennium later Jesus came and clarified a long-misunderstood concept.
“25 Whoever picks up one of their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.”- This seems like a repetition, but it really isn’t, because there is new information – “must wash their clothes”, so this verse teaches us that we must wash our clothes after we touch something unclean, another rule of hygiene. Then we must ask, why will they be unclean till evening? It is because that even if they wash their clothes, they are still spiritually unclean if they misunderstand these rules and that only after being taught the truth, they will be spiritually clean again. Here the bible tells us that lack of knowledge is spiritual uncleanliness.
“26 “‘Every animal that does not have a divided hoof or that does not chew the cud is unclean for you; whoever touches the carcass of any of them will be unclean. “- This verse seems to repeat verse 3, but adds the part of touching the carcass, emphasizing a difference, in the first part of the verse, the animal is considered unclean, but in the second part of the verse, it is the person who touched the carcass that is considered unclean, so why are they distinguished? It is to tell us that the behaviors of the “unclean” animals are not to be adopted, explaining the metaphor behind the uncleanliness, so that if only the animal has this “unclean” behavior, the “uncleanliness” remains with the animal, but as soon as the person “touches the carcass” as a metaphor to adopting the undesired feature or behavior, it is the person that becomes spiritually unclean.
“27 Of all the animals that walk on all fours, those that walk on their paws are unclean for you; whoever touches their carcasses will be unclean till evening. “- All animals that walk on all fours walk on their paws, so why is it mentioned? To teach us to pay attention to details. Why are they mentioned as “unclean”? Their paws are indeed unclean, wouldn’t your feet be unclean if you had to walk on the streets without shoes? This verse comes to teach us that we should not compare ourselves to animals and should have higher standards than them. This verse also teaches us, in its second part, to keep a distance from unhygienic people.
28 Anyone who picks up their carcasses must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. These animals are unclean for you. – Seems to repeat verse 25, but why? First let’s look whether there is a different context. There is, verse 25 was talking about four legged flying insects and this verse talks about four legged animals that are not insects. Carcasses of four legged flying insects may be picked up from virtually anywhere, due to their ability to fly, but carcasses of four legged animals that can’t fly may only be picked up from the ground. That comes to tell us, that regardless of where we find a carcass we should avoid it, so if one thinks that a carcass that is found on a tree (for example) may be considered cleaner than a carcass found on the ground, they should know this isn’t the case, they both comprise a health hazard.
“29 “‘Of the animals that move along the ground, these are unclean for you: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard, “- What do weasels, rats and great lizards have in common? They eat people’s trash; this is simply a warning about the health hazard of eating trash.
“30 the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon. 31 Of all those that move along the ground, these are unclean for you. Whoever touches them when they are dead will be unclean till evening. “- What is common to these lizards? They eat insects. Why does it matter to us that these lizards eat insects? Today it doesn’t, because we live in an industrial society, but when these verses were written all households were farmers, society was agrarian, so it was important not to overconsume lizards, because then insects would have become too common and do too much harm to fruits, vegetables and livestock, the lizards were important to keep the balance and prevent insects from overpopulating and transmitting diseases to people through their food.
“32 When one of them dies and falls on something, that article, whatever its use, will be unclean, whether it is made of wood, cloth, hide or sackcloth. Put it in water; it will be unclean till evening, and then it will be clean. 33 If one of them falls into a clay pot, everything in it will be unclean, and you must break the pot. 34 Any food you are allowed to eat that has come into contact with water from any such pot is unclean, and any liquid that is drunk from such a pot is unclean. 35 Anything that one of their carcasses falls on becomes unclean; an oven or cooking pot must be broken up. They are unclean, and you are to regard them as unclean. 36 A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains clean, but anyone who touches one of these carcasses is unclean. 37 If a carcass falls on any seeds that are to be planted, they remain clean. 38 But if water has been put on the seed and a carcass falls on it, it is unclean for you.” – Wherever a lizard falls dead, it poses a health hazard, therefore all these examples. They serve us well when they’re alive but threaten our health when they’re dead.
“39 “‘If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. 40 Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening.” – As we can see from this verse, the “clean” animals’ carcasses are treated the same way as the unclean animals’ carcasses, to show us, again, that this is not about what we’re allowed to eat or not, but about habits that we should or shouldn’t adopt.
SupermanZW
Well-known member
“41 “‘Every creature that moves along the ground is to be regarded as unclean; it is not to be eaten. 42 You are not to eat any creature that moves along the ground, whether it moves on its belly or walks on all fours or on many feet; it is unclean. 43 Do not defile yourselves by any of these creatures. Do not make yourselves unclean by means of them or be made unclean by them. “- We cannot defile ourselves by what we eat, as explained below, but we may risk our health if we are not careful, having critical thinking for these verses and the above would help not only keep us safe but also prevent us from being deceived, and that is important for our spiritual cleanliness.
44 I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground. 45 I am the Lord, who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore, be holy, because I am holy. – Here, at last, the bible tells us the purpose of understanding all the above.
46 “‘These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves about in the water and every creature that moves along the ground. – To be more accurate, this is what we should learn from/about all these creatures, and if we read carefully, we can understand what it really is about, and it is not about what we are allowed or not allowed to eat.
“47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.’” – Meaning spiritually clean or unclean no less than physically. Otherwise we wouldn’t have been given so many examples so different in nature.
But there is a greater challenge, how should we interpret Isaiah 66:17: ""Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things--they will meet their end together with the one they follow," declares the LORD."
The answer is, again, that it is an allegory. Since Jesus declared all food to be clean, it is not unclean food we should abstain from, but unclean people. That allegory is there to teach us to choose our friends carefully. It is even hinted in the verse: "they will meet their end together with the one they follow" as "we become like our friends" or as the old saying goes "Tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are"
We may conclude it like this: It never was about food, it is not about food, and it never will be, it is about our behaviour, our deeds, our morals, and so on, this is how we show obedience, not by what we eat or not eat.
There is more proof in Leviticus 11 that it is not about food, if you scientifically check the claims of some of the verses you find them to be wrong, but if you understand the allegory behind them then they make sense, for example:
1) The camel does have a divided hoof, but walks as if it doesn't, it's an allegory that teaches against making false impressions.
2) The hyrax does not chew cud, it can't, it has only one stomach, but it chews like animals that do so and with an open mouth, it's an allegory that teaches dining etiquette.
3) The rabbit does not chew cud, but it chews like animals that do and eats very quickly, it's an allegory that teaches not to eat too quickly as one might choke.
4) The pig has bad hygiene; the allegory is there to teach us to be hygienic.
5) For a sea creature not to have fins and scales symbolizes acting as foreigners, therefore deceiving in a manner, the allegory is there to teach us to be truthful, not deceiving.
6) The bat is listed in the paragraph of the birds, but it is a mammal, not a bird. The allegory is there to teach us critical thinking, not to be gullible.
44 I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground. 45 I am the Lord, who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore, be holy, because I am holy. – Here, at last, the bible tells us the purpose of understanding all the above.
46 “‘These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves about in the water and every creature that moves along the ground. – To be more accurate, this is what we should learn from/about all these creatures, and if we read carefully, we can understand what it really is about, and it is not about what we are allowed or not allowed to eat.
“47 You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between living creatures that may be eaten and those that may not be eaten.’” – Meaning spiritually clean or unclean no less than physically. Otherwise we wouldn’t have been given so many examples so different in nature.
But there is a greater challenge, how should we interpret Isaiah 66:17: ""Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things--they will meet their end together with the one they follow," declares the LORD."
The answer is, again, that it is an allegory. Since Jesus declared all food to be clean, it is not unclean food we should abstain from, but unclean people. That allegory is there to teach us to choose our friends carefully. It is even hinted in the verse: "they will meet their end together with the one they follow" as "we become like our friends" or as the old saying goes "Tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are"
We may conclude it like this: It never was about food, it is not about food, and it never will be, it is about our behaviour, our deeds, our morals, and so on, this is how we show obedience, not by what we eat or not eat.
There is more proof in Leviticus 11 that it is not about food, if you scientifically check the claims of some of the verses you find them to be wrong, but if you understand the allegory behind them then they make sense, for example:
1) The camel does have a divided hoof, but walks as if it doesn't, it's an allegory that teaches against making false impressions.
2) The hyrax does not chew cud, it can't, it has only one stomach, but it chews like animals that do so and with an open mouth, it's an allegory that teaches dining etiquette.
3) The rabbit does not chew cud, but it chews like animals that do and eats very quickly, it's an allegory that teaches not to eat too quickly as one might choke.
4) The pig has bad hygiene; the allegory is there to teach us to be hygienic.
5) For a sea creature not to have fins and scales symbolizes acting as foreigners, therefore deceiving in a manner, the allegory is there to teach us to be truthful, not deceiving.
6) The bat is listed in the paragraph of the birds, but it is a mammal, not a bird. The allegory is there to teach us critical thinking, not to be gullible.
זה אמור להיות קשור ליהדות איכשהו?
SupermanZW
Well-known member
כן, זה שובר את המיתוס של יהודים משיחיים שישוע ביטל את הכשרות. להד״ם.
בקיצור לא. אגב גם ל"יהודים משיחים" אין קשר מיוחד ליהדות.
SupermanZW
Well-known member
כדאי שתקרא את כל הטקסט ולא תתמקד רק במשפט אחד.
הוא מספיק לצורך העניין. התוספת שלך (הסיכום שלך) מחזקת את מה שברור מהמשפט הזה.
עם זאת, אתה כמובן צודק וזה לא לגמרי הוגן מה שאני עושה. בכל זאת במקרה הזה אני לא רואה סיבה מיוחדת להתעמק מעבר לנ"ל.
SupermanZW
Well-known member
שאלת שאלה על משפט אחד, עניתי עליה. הבעת את דעתך על תשובתי, זכותך. מה לגבי התייחסות לשאר התוכן? מכיוון שכבר טרחת להגיב על משפט אחד, ציפיתי שתגיב על המסר כולו.
לא קראתי את כל המסמך. מבלי לפגוע, זה לא עניין שמעניין אותי במיוחד ולצורך העניין, מספיק כדי להתאמץ לקרוא את כל הנ"ל. התייחסתי למה שקפץ לי לעיניים כאשר כאמור, תשובתך רק חיזקה לי את ההבנה שאין כאן קשר מיוחד ליהדות. לכן הגבתי על כך וויתרתי על הצורך לומר לך שמה שהתאמצת לכתוב ולהביא לא מענין אותי ומהמשפטים המאוד בודדים שקראתי ברפרוף, ממילא גם לא יהיה מקובל עלי.
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