Being a homosexual orthodox jew

[NewChabadnik]

Being a homosexual orthodox jew

Been at a yeshiva for four months now, having been religious but not orthodox while I was at university back in the united states. Know that I am a homosexual (I am only attracted to men) and that I want to keep torah. Maybe it is because I come from the US, but I think it is possible to be orthodox and know you are a homosexual at the same time. I don't think g-d made it easy to be homosexual and religious, but everyone has their challenges, and I think the right first step is to know who you are, and hopefully be comfortable enough with yourself to tell your friends. The next step, and it's a big step, is figuring out how to be a gay orthodox man and not violate halakha. I know who I am, and I know from the experience of friends in the US whose Christian families tried to "make them straight" that it doesn't work all too well, and has only left them feeling worse about themselves, and not having any real answer. I'm certain that's not what g-d intends for us to try and do. For thousands of years jews have lived, keeping torah in some of the most difficult places in the world. Maybe being homosexual and gay is making life more complicated than trying to be straight, but for a jew, that's the way life can be sometimes. Complicated, lonely, but never forgetting for a second who we really are. ‎שמץ ישראל‫,‬ יי אלהינו‫,‬ יי אחד! -שמשון

 

[Harry J]

אפשר לענות לך גם בעברית???

Anyway, it was very moving!!! Good luck with everything!!!

 

[Nחמן]

לטובת אלה, שהאנגלית שלהם רצוצה ושבורה

ובעוונותי גם אני נמנה על אלה - אשמח לתרגום עברי של כל הנכתב באנגלית אך לא לפני שאקדם בברכת "ברוך הבא" את ידידנו שמשון. מרוח הדברים הבנתי, שמדובר בצדיק נוסף, שמתמודד עם הנטייה מבלי לוותר על האמונה אבל אוכל להגיב בהרחבה לאחר קבלת התרגום המלא.

 

[NewChabadnik]

translate.google.com

Is how I read what everyone on here writes. It's not perfect, but I can understand the meaning with a little effort.

 

[Nחמן]

NewChabadnik !

טוב, שיש כאן דוברי 2 השפות. השאלה שלך כבר נשאלה פעמים רבות. פתח את ספר איוב ותמצא אותה שם בווריאציה כזאת או אחרת. גם את התשובות תמצא שם. הן לא יספקו אותך, כפי שאינן מספקות אותי אבל לו הייתי מלאך הייתי יודע מעט יותר. אנחנו כבני אדם מאמינים, שהקב"ה רוצה בטובתנו. למה מביא עלינו יסורים? סיבות שונות לכך ולא ניכנס אפילו לאחת מהן. רק דבר אחד עליך לדעת: לא לאבד אמונה ולא לאבד תקווה. מהכינוי שלך אני משער, שאתה חב"דניק (כבר היה לנו כאן בפורום), ואם החב"דניק האחר יסכים, תוכל לקבל את האימייל שלו ולשוחח עמו ישירות (גם באנגלית). בינתיים - לפי המאמץ = השכר. שולח

חזק והמשך לעקוב אחר התגובות. בהזדמנות זאת מחמאה ל"פורטי" (גיי 40 גברי). למרות שהוא ליברל גדול ואמונתו לא כל כך חזקה כיום, ניכר בו, שהוא מכבד כל בעל אמונה ולא מנסה כהוא זה להסיט אותו לכיוון האחר. "ועמך כולם צדיקים" נאמר גם עליו. גם לך, פורט, מגיע

וברכת

ו... בדרך אגה שמתי לב, שזו תכונה אופיינית לך מאז שזכיתי להכירך ואני מניח, שעוד הרבה קודם לכן.

 

[סורנטו]

אני חושבת שפורטי אחד החכמים בפורומים כאן כותב

כותבת למרות שאומרים ש"אין משבחים אדם בפניו" אבל תגובותיו מוכיחות...

 

[ערנוש האחד]

Great reading your thoughts man ../images/Emo13.gif

 

[לוחם הדמדומים]

I'd try my best to find a way to say this...

Dear Shimon. It is Possible to be Gay without Violating the Torah (I guess your meaning is that its forbidden to Get laid with another male and as much as it seems there is no way to Break that Rule) But sex isn't love (Thats what i think ) And the Torah dosn't Forbidden the Love that might come up Being a jew is the very first way you should be looking at yourself, But there is no point in living in a Lie and you should keep Looking Down there inside you and ask yourself. Is this is the way i want to live my life? and why its so Wrong? Once you'll Cover that Up i am sure you will be able to find the way Between those two things after all i am Homosexual and i used to be a orthodox and i could have stayed as one the only reason i didn't was Beacuse .i couldn't lie to myself . i Couldn't keep it out of my mind but at the end i found out there is Only one Torah and There are Many People And Since God Gave us the Torah we Can find a Way to Make it Fit oursalves. My teacher used to tell me that Sometimes you can't Take everything with you and you should Drop a few thing's i was Shocked at first but it seemed more reasoneable For a Humen to Choose what he wants to do at hes own life and Its Just right to make the Best of it Just to make it clear there are Thousnds types of jews, but who said you got to be the same type as them? Find your own way and i am sure you will be able to be a Jew and a Homosexual both at the same time just as i did Hope you will find an Answer in my Messege and i wish you a Happy Hanuka =] Your's Jonathan

 

[NewChabadnik]

But I want to be myself

An orthodox jewish homosexual. I don't think it means living a lie, I think it means figuring out new ways to solve the problems that cause many gay people to stop being religious. You can't be orthodox and lead exactly the same life as a secular jew. But in the same way, you can't be an orthodox jew and lead the same life as a secular jew. I just think it's much better for people who want to be religious and gay to say "I'm going to remember who I am, a gay man and an an orthodox jew" and then try to figure out how to make that work, to be a healthy, happy person. You're not living a lie, you're just living a more complicated life than a secular jew. And that's fine, because as I said, life isn't always easy.

 

[סרוג בארון]

so????

I was reading your opinion ... and i didn't understand what is your solotion? if u have one i mean i know that its ok to live as a gay, but if i want to be an orthodox jewish, i cant do anything with man!!! i need to hide my feeling and to married a women, even if dont really attracted to her. so i think that is the reasone why ortodox gay choose to stop being a religoues anymore... and i'm really soory for that!!!! but what can we do??? i feel lonely and i want to make a family one day... to live with a men and continue with my religouse believe. shabbat shalom

 

[NewChabadnik]

I don't have all the answers

I just know that there is one, and with enough work, talking to others, getting them to understand that it's possible for a person to be both a homosexual and an orthodox jew, but not necessarily have the same life path as a heterosexual (for example, not necessarily getting married) that someone can live like that . It's not an easy life, being lonely, but I think the best first step is meeting other people like yourself, other orthodox gay jews so you can have people to talk to, to socialize with who understand exactly what your life is like. Then, together, you figure out how to be orthodox, gay, and not violate torah. You say you need to get married. But is living a lie better than being open about who you are and not having everything you want?

 

[גיי40 גברי]

Could you please answer the question

Dear Chabadnik, I have posted here a question, which may be theoretical, but by answering it you could learn a lot about your own feelings regarding this difficult combination of Orthodoxy and homosexuality. For your convenience I have put here the link to it I hope your Hebrew is good enough to understand the content. Shabat Shalom Forti

 

[yosef770]

i'm to a orthodox an homosexuale but my

english is not so good.... i teel you about my choose, i know i can't ovaer on the thora rouls and i know i''m a homoseaule and my shoose was go to try be heterosexual and i dont care what heppend' i mean i care bat i have no other opshens (אפשרויות...) . i can't live like a homosexuol and i can't live like a heterosxuol... if you find another opshen i wiil be happy if you tell my about it. good week! a

 

[NewChabadnik]

Working together

Tell me which makes more sense below, Hebrew or English. English: I don't know the exact right choices now, but I think together all of us (religous gays) can find how to live happy lives and keep torah. I think we start by talking, often, about what's going on in our lives, meeting up to talk in groups with the help of Rabbis who understand and want to help us keep Torah and be true to the person g-d made us to be. Each of us will come up with different solutions to the daily struggles of keeping torah and being honest to ourselves about our sexual orientation, and together we can find the the best possible answers so we can lead happy lives, filled with torah, performing mitzvahs, and keeping true to the covenants which make us religious jews. Hebrew (using a translator) אני לא יודע את הבחירות הנכונות בדיוק עכשיו, אבל אני חושב יחד כולנו (הומואים דתיים) יכולים למצוא איך לחיות חיים מאושרים לשמור תורה. אני חושב שאנחנו מתחילים לדבר, לעתים קרובות, על מה קורה בחיינו, את הפגישה לדבר בקבוצות עם עזרה של רבנים שמבינים ורוצים לעזור לנו לשמור תורה להיות נכון לאדם אלוהים גרם לנו להיות. כל אחד מאיתנו יעלה עם פתרונות שונים כדי המאבקים היומיומיים של שמירת תורה להיות כנים עם עצמנו לגבי הנטייה המינית שלנו, וביחד נוכל למצוא את התשובות הטובות ביותר האפשריות כדי שנוכל לחיות חיים מאושרים, מלאים תורה, ביצוע מצוות, נכון ושמירה על אמות מידה אשר לגרום לנו היהודים הדתיים.

 

[לוחם הדמדומים]

At the end its not really that easy...

Dear shimon i have red what you just said but i really think that its kinda impossible to let youself out infront of other people that keep on Telling you that you are doing the wrong thingss And i can understand that you want to be Religious and to be yourself but most of the things should be done by the way that won't hurt you my Dear Friend I will be honest with you I Wanted to be Far away from those questions but i guess i am not that Courgerous as you But at the Far end of the world they found a way to Do both of the things by themsalves Saying that you think there is Other people that Care so much about us And that he will want to take a Part at helping us to find a way to be what they want us to be .... while all that you want to do is Being Yourself... And let me ask you What is so Wrong about it? You can still Believe in God and Love him more then you can Really imagine But if you are feeling that you love a guy don't stop yourself from thinking about him as much as you won't stop yourself from Thinking about God So much As you said You are a Homosexual Orthodox jew But you should Be able to understand that you can't Be yourself without your other Part Beacuse at the end no cure will be found Talking in Grops will help you find People that will think the same as you Do you think you will be able to find the Answer in those people .... Even if they are thinking the same way as you? I Can just hope that you can be true Enough with yourself first And only then you will be able to find the way to love a Man and Still Wear a Kippa and Learning the Torah by all of it Means Your's and much more Jonathan

 

[NewChabadnik]

It's okay to write in hebrew

I can use a translator http://translate.google.com. It's how I read what everyone else writes. -שמשון

 

[NewChabadnik]

i meant to say it's okay to write in hebrew

 

[NewChabadnik]

Oops. Again, meant to say Hebrew is okay

 

[NewChabadnik]

Haha, translator turns Hebrew into English

When I use google translator on the page, it translates the english word Hebrew into the word English, so it keeps looking to me like I said it wrong...

 

[DannyDinn]

Why I don't believe in god

Dear NewChabadnik When I was still frum, I was told all the time that god loves me the way I am and that I should accept myself and love myself as well. I was also told what the other people say here, that its a test I am put in, the same way that anyone else has something they are tested with in their life.... Then I had lots of thoughts about this "fact" that god love me and created me like that - if he did, would he also created the SOCIAL situation that exists towards homosexual men? Let me explain. God created orphans, and told the Jewish nation to take care of the orphans. God created the blind, and told the Jewish nation to take care of the blind and not to put any obstacle in front of the blind. etc. etc. So, if god created the homosexual, why didn't he say how to HELP the homosexual in his difficult life? Moreover, if the meaning of Mishkav Zachar is as the Gmara and Rashi says, only Anal Sex, but not anything else, WHY would the situation be so extreme that homosexuality and homosexuals will be treated the way they are??? My conclusion for all of that was that god did NOT craeted this social situation. Men did. And if Men created this by forbidding things or making things different than what was the meaning of the original text, who tells me that they didn't do it for all the other 612 Mitzvot? Maybe everything in our religious life is infected by some human inability to understand the root cause and how the people involve actually feel.... From this conclusion, my way out of the religious believe was quite fast. Now I don't believe god created us, or love us. I believe we created god....... and everything else.... Yom tov