Awarding ranks

Sensei

New member
Awarding ranks

Should belts be awarded only on grounds of good performance? How about those students who are slow or awkward at times? Should they be left in their ranks because of poor performance ,or lets say not exciting performance? Perhaps they should be awarded ranks because of their dedication or good attendance and for their efforts being made. Not everyone can be a Chuck Norris , Steven Segal or Bruce Lee etc.. Secondly,should Instructors be those with knowledge and good performances,or does it surfice to have knowledge and experiance? In Kaze Arashi Ryu there is no official rank untill the rank of Oku Iri(black belt).To achieve this rank one must pass a test, which material has been decided upon by the Menkyo Kaiden of the system.Before that rank of Oku Iri it is the Head Instructors decision of a particular dojo to issue rank and he can use different colors for internal reasons alone.This alows for flexibility untill the rank of Oku Iri.There are four official ranks in KAR. Oku Iri, Moku Roku ,Menkyo, Menkyo Kaiden.Headmaster is a Menkyo Kaiden who has been elected by the council of Menkyo Kaiden.The head Master today is Akemi Nishiyama .The Nishiyama family has been transfering the knowledge of KAR .​
 

Pyongwon

New member
There are middle ranks, you know...

I have this kid, bit chubby, not that good, but she always tries her best and is really a good kid- always there, positive influence on the others. So I gave her a white/yellow rank; which she wears proudly and it's actually helped her a lot. She knows she's a bit better than the others, but sees the long path in front of her. On the other hand, I have some students who were trained by another trainer who just awarded ranks on I have no idea what criteria- and the kids are impossible - the new kids are much better than those he taught. So I've got white belts who are really good and these yellow belts who are terrible. So on the one hand, yes, award lower ranks according to ability, responsibility, attitude, in addition to the basics of technique, poomsae and so on and so forth. Maybe you could add a stripe to their belts, because they do have to see that they're advancing. And also let them compete, so they see that there are others in front of them, get a bit of perspective. Those are my two cents' worth of advice for today. Take care, J.
 

Sensei

New member
This whole subject

of awarding ranks could be a tricky one. In KAR the fact that there are no official ranks untill Back Belt makes things easier.The Black Belt -Oku Iri rank is clear and cut.It depends upon performance alone.That is why I have students who have been with me for 6-7 years and have not been awarded their Black Belts yet.By the time they reach it they are ready for it.​
 

Pyongwon

New member
Time - is subjectively irrelevant

Once you have a very good student who trains day in, day out, several years, and is mature and knows what s/he is doing, then they'll be able to pass any exam. The problem lies when you have people who do not know what they are doing and thus think that just because they have been training for a certain amount of years that they are obviously prepared for any exam. Which is not the case, lately. I have seen some very interesting people or trainers who think that if the student comes regularly but does nothing, then the student can still advance. I don't think that this is the case. If the student comes regularly, works well, knows what s/he is supposed to do, then basically all should be ok.
 

Sensei

New member
In general that should be the case

However Jessica I have seen 'unusual cases'which we should be ready for . There are students that realy try hard for years but dont match up to 'OUR' standards which in certain cases of certain trainers might be high.Should we feel sorry for them and keep them on anyhow and show our respect for their commitment and efforts to training that they have shown? OR should we be straight forward and tell them "perhaps Bowling is up your ALLY." You know there are people who really think they can sing and are willing to even try out for all sorts of talent shows(I am one of them by the way).Only to be let down time after time.Their reaction to the judges or talent scouts are"What do you know from singing any way". Do you like breaking hearts? I dont.I have even seen practitioners grow old receiving belts and 'thinking' they deserve it. In Kaze Arashi Ryu we solve the problem.There is only a Black Belt test.A very hard one which few jump into.Ask my students,some have even grown white hair before they have seen a Black Belt.That is why I only have very serious mature students.The immature leave before their hair turns white. I dont have to break hearts,and I dont hve to put my soul into practitioners who are not putting their soul into it. Shimon​
 

Sensei

New member
By the way

I was just kidding about the singing.I dont try out for talent shows.I cant even hold a tune..I have grown to live with the fact that I will not be a Barry Manilow(thank G-d).Elvis is (was) definetly the King .​
 

Pyongwon

New member
I agree. There are those

for whom just giving them another stripe on their belt does the trick - espeically the younger generation. However, I would rather call a spade a spade - and tell the kids what they have to do in order to improve. Take care, jessica Mandel.
 

brunoflexe

New member
מה עם כיוון חשיבה אחר ?

אצלינו אין דרגות, יש מעמד. מה ההבדל הפרקטי ? אולי בהבדלים בין צורת החשיבה הסינית והיפאנית.
 

tessen

New member
גם אצלנו יש קו מחשבה דומה

יותר חלוקה של מתקדמים מול מתחילים, כולם מבצעים אותם תרגילים. ההבדל הוא בניואנסים קטנים בביצוע הטכניקה, כמו נשימה, תגובה וכו'. נ.ב. כמו שסנסאי ציין, לחלק יש שיער לבן ועוד לא קיבלו חגורה ולחלק גם אין כבר שיער בכלל
. (ככה לפחות לא צריך לדאוג לפריזורה אחרי שימה וואזה)
 

Sensei

New member
Status

That is the exact idea behind the Menkyo ranking system in KAR and other Koryu arts. Menkyo is a Status, a teaching Status which gives privilages to the Menkyo holder.Menkyo is a Teaching license which allows the holder of this license to open up his own school under the systems name.The Kyu -Dan system used by other Martial arts is not a Status but a Ranking system which usually gives no special privileges and do not necessarily license the practitioner to teach and open his own Dojo under the systems name.​
 

nirk_aikido

New member
another view- personal improvement

It seems that currently your only criterion is an "absolute" perfromance level. This is appropriate sometimes (like in the black belt). Other times a relative view might be better. For example testing how much a person improved during his training period. Not everyone is capeable of having outstanding performance, but everyone that invest himself in the art can improve himself in various aspects. Looking at it this way, you might find that the awkward people tend to improve much more then the talented ones, because they have a much longer way to go, and each improvement counts. Nir
 
היה היה פעם... אקדמיזציה וא"ל

רובנו, אני מניח, מכירים את המושג "אוניברסיטה" או "תואר ראשון". בלי קשר אם עברנו דרך כתלי היכל כזה או אחר, או הוצאנו תעודת הסמכה כזו או אחרת, אפשר להניח שלרובנו יש מושג מעורפל שיכול לשמש בסיס להשוואה. באקדמיה, תואר ראשון מוציא מי שעומד בקריטריונים נוקשים שנקבעו ע"י המוסד (באישור ועדה ממלכתית, בד"כ, כדי שהתואר יוכר במדינה זו או אחרת). לא מעניקים תואר ראשון על מאמץ. אדם שהגיע לאוניברסיטה בלי לדעת חיבור/חיסור והצליח ללמוד אלגברה ליניארית, עדיין לא יקבל תואר ראשון במתמטיקה, אפילו אם עשה כברת דרך ארוכה בהרבה מסטודנט שהגיע עם ידע נרחב מהבית ורק עשה השלמות. הבעיה מתחילה בבסיס - מדוע יש דרגה/תואר? מה מנסה "דרגה" לפתור? אם מטרת הדרגה לתת מוטיבציה להמשך לימודים, זה דומה לדרגות הנתנות בצופים (חניך מצטיין או כדומה) או לציונים בגן, לראייתי. improvment is it's own reward - אם כל המטרה היא ללמוד ולדעת, אתה לא צריך תואר. גם לא תואר ראשון. אפשר ללמוד בקורסים חיצוניים, או באוניברסיטה הפתוחה, בלי להתקדם לתואר כלשהו, ואפילו בלי לעבור מבחנים, אם לא אכפת לך לשלם עבור זמנם של המורים. תעודה לא תראה מזה, אבל אם מה שמעניין אותך זה רק הידע - מה אכפת לך? אם לעומת זאת, אתה רוצה לעסוק במקצוע, אתה צריך תעודה. לא בשבילך - בשביל המעסיק המעוניין בבסיס כלשהו להשוואה - האם אתה יודע מספיק, האם יש לך בסיס מספיק במקצוע כדי לעסוק בו. מהו התואר/דירוג בא"ל? על איזה צורך הוא בא לענות? מורה שקיבל הסמכה ממוסד ידוע (דאי ניהון בוטוקאי/צ'אנג מינג מארשיאל ארטס אסוסיאיישן/קמ"י/דניס השרדות) - כל מי שמגיע ללמוד אצלו יודע מראש לאיזה מינימום הוא יכול לצפות. זה רק הבסיס הראשוני להשואה. אף מעסיק לא מסתפק רק בתעודת תואר ראשון לפני העסקת עובד חדש - בד"כ צריך לעבור ראיון ואולי אף מבחן כלשהו. אבל תואר ראשון הוא דרישת סף במקצועות רבים. חגורה שחורה/דאן 1/היישי (ביישי עבור ניצן, חנן ושאר דוברי סינית קלוקלת) וכדומה, על אף שאינם מלמדים כמעט דבר על האדם, נתפסים בציבור כמעין מקבילה לתואר ראשון - הם יוצרים תחושה כי המדובר באדם שעבר הסמכה מינימלית כלשהי, שיש בכלל טעם לדבר איתו. ייתכן והתפיסה בציבור מוטעית, ייתכן ולהענקת דרגות יש טעם מעבר למכירת מורים לציבור. אין לי מושג, כבר מזמן לא הייתי ציבור. אבל עם כל הכבוד - מה המטרה בנתינת דרגה לאדם על סמך שיפור עצמי יחסי? למי הדרגה מיועדת? מה היא תורמת? האם ללא הדרגה האדם לא התקדם? האם המטרה בלימוד היא בשביל הדרגה? בתכל'ס, מי שרוצה ללמוד ילמד גם אם אין דרגה. מי שרוצה רק דרגה ישיג אותה גם בלי ללמוד.
 

Pyongwon

New member
There are differences, as usual...

Between styles - I suppose that an Olympic style will have different rules and regulations than a non-Olympic style; you can only do certain things if you have a certain rank. Usually, the criteria are quite clear-cut; regarding timing and so on and so forth. I agree that the "untalented" person has a much more rewarding way as s/he has to work that much harder to get their act together; but in the end, unlike university, those who want to retest can retest as many times as they like. Not so in the university. The question of whether to work for a black belt or to go out and buy one for a mere 30 shekels with no knowledge does exist. I have seen it happen here in Israel, and yes, nothing was done about it. Not sure anything can be done. There are plenty of frauds all over the place. But at the end of the day, at least in TKD, you can check up on people who say they have a certan rank. I know- I went to the US and had been emailing the guy with whom I was to train - he wanted the number of my diploma, he checked it out, and then he also faxed the guy in charge of the federation here. Very interesting situation. Apparently he did it because someone had tried to pull rank or something on him before and he wasn't taking any chances. It's a good idea - I try to check people out, find out where and if their black belt is genuine. And phone usually assist as well. A black belt is a license to study martial arts. The way you use that license is up to each and every individual. I think...:)
 

instr

New member
דרגות

יש להם משמעות במקרה שתיאר סנסיי - קבלת סטטוס מורה ופתיחת אולם אימונים משלו תחת ברנד של סגנון מוכר. מלבד זאת אין שום משמעות בחגורות. יש משמעות במספר ותוצאות קרבות זירה ו/או רחוב. בעצם גם לזה חשיבות שולית - תמיד יהיו אנשים חזקים ממך אף שלא יתאמנו לעולם.
 
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